QCon San Francisco, Day 2, thoughts

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The REST track, hosted by Stefan, was great fun -- Floyd mentioned to me that the track in London wasn't so packed, but the room in San Fran was standing-room only for some of the talks. Stefan has rough notes of most of the proceedings on his site, so here are my reflections.

Steve Vinoski's talk was a good introduction to the crowd on REST's constraints and the desirable properties brought out of those constraints. "SOA Guy" brought out common counter-arguments from the SOA architect's position. A favorite point: SOA does not stand for "Special Object Annotations" :-) I also learned that we share a love of Mountain Dew (sadly decaffeinated in Canada, though).


One question from the crowd was: Isn't REST just pushing the interoperability protocol to the data type, not solving the interoperability problem? Here's my take: application protocols are about expectation management. Even though it's generic, the HTTP methods + metadata + response codes provide a wide range of signs, signals, and expectations for communication. So, while it's not aligned to what you're doing specifically, it means that we can discover & communicate, generically, almost any piece of information -- a very valuable form of interoperability.


This does not, of course, solve the the data (MIME) type tower of babel. That's the next battle. There is a tradeoff between intertwingling syntax and semantics. Doing so, like with XML Schema and its ilk, is easier for programmers, but harder to interoperate if the domain is business-biased. There's more potential for disagreement when designing a data format for an industry than for some general-purpose infrastructure. On the other hand, using a generic syntax, whether Microformat-based XHTML, is a bit harder to program with, requiring tools support, but arguably could lead to better interoperability. And, taking this progression further, a completely generic logical data format, like RDF/XML, is even harder to program for, but once the tools exist (similar to SQL query engines), the potential is vast.


A more few reflections. Why do people misunderstand REST? For example, REST and WOA are about anarchy & avoiding standardization according to this gentleman. Who are these WOA people he speaks of? This strikes me as a projected argument, something that's derived from the emotional reaction of "I'm afraid you are saying X", when the Other isn't actually saying X. It reminds me of the early days of Extreme Programming, where pundits claimed "Egads, XPers say you should not design your software!"

Another example, is "You REST people think it will take everything over and be the only architecture!" Which is again, an emotionally projected argument, something I don't think anyone is actually saying. The points are that effective architecture at scale requires emergent properties to be induced through constraints, and that networked hypermedia might be a shift in thinking in the way that objects were a shift, and deserves attention. (Apparently we're in the mid-70's Smalltalk phase of that revolution, however. :-)

There are two common angles where I think people miss the point of REST here:

  1. When people don't believe there's such a thing as emergence;
  2. When people don't get/remember or relate solid software engineering principles to their distributed systems. In particular: interface segregation, and stable dependencies and abstractions. REST is really just a pattern that takes those principles seriously for a collaborative information system.

On to the further talks....


Sanvija's talk brought out the most useful debate of the day -- there's so much more dialogue that could (and SHOULD) happen on every one of those slides, to absorb where we misunderstand each other. Stefan's blog entry captures a lot of my questions and comments that I made during this session; afterwards I thanked Sanjiva for putting up with me. ;-) Hopefully this one will be posted in InfoQ.com sooner rather than later, it was a fun time.


Pete Lacey went through demonstrating the 'ilities' of REST, where he discussed the constraints and properties in more detail and, in code showed an XHTML-based (but also Atom and plain XML representation-based) REST API for an expense reporting system. He proceeded to show integration via a Microformat browser, curl, ruby, Microsoft Excel, and Word.

This sort of demo is very important, as it's the only way I think people will begin to get what serendipitous reuse is about. Not everything is encoded in a managed business process -- Microsoft Office still glues a vast amount of business activity together!


Dan Diephouse discussed building services with the Atom Publishing Protocol. I enjoyed this: it was hands on, code-oriented, and wasn't just a love-in: we spoke equally of the benefits and current open challenges with this approach to publishing data on the web.


And, though I met him at lunch, I unfortunately missed Jim Webber's final talk of the track day, due to some work commitments! Hopefully I'll catch the video when it's posted on InfoQ.

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This page contains a single entry by Stu published on November 9, 2007 1:28 PM.

QCon San Francisco, Day 1, thoughts was the previous entry in this blog.

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